I started online dating after becoming a widow at 46, but the men I found on the apps were so lacking I had to share their profiles with other women in the dating trenches
Oct 14Liked by Rachel Kramer Bussel, Lara Starr, Open Secrets
Well said, siSTAR. If I were on facebook, I’d definitely be a fan of this group. I have been off the apps for years because of these exact reasons but your positive attitude and outlook is refreshing. Keep writing. xx
Oct 14Liked by Rachel Kramer Bussel, Lara Starr, Open Secrets
I think dating apps are difficult for everyone. It is artificial. You know the vast majority of people you match with won't end up being a romantic hit for any number of reasons.
Women complain about men. Men complain about women. Men can send out hundreds of messages without a response, so they get weary of putting out effort and play the law of averages. Women get pummeled with hundreds of crappy messages, and get weary of weeding through them.
I take the apps with a grain a salt. I cut people a lot of slack when they don't know what to say or they stupid things to try to stand out or put up photos that don't work.
If men aren't getting responses, it's because their opening volleys are either boring or inappropriate. Put in better effort and you'll get better results.
One man's "cutting people slack" is too many women's "lowering the bar."
Respectfully I disagree with you. Lots of men do spend time writing personalized letters and get zero response. At that point they tend to play the numbers game.
The point is dating apps are difficult and frustrating for everyone. I meet very few people of either sex who enjoy them
That's cool. I don't want to get into an argument. I just know I encounter lots of men who complain that they write personal letters to women on dating apps without getting a response. I tell them to accept that on some apps women are getting hundreds or thousands of responses.
And even if they write a great letter, a woman might not respond if they don't find them attractive or they have some item in their profile that makes them unattractive to a woman. Such is life.
I have spent time on dating apps. I write great personal letters (I have made my living as a professional writer for decades) so I'd better!. Even though I get a good response compared to most men, the vast majority I sent are not replied to. That's just the nature of Internet dating.
I accept it is a frustrating place, and, like it or not, a numbers game.
Again, I am not disputing your personal experience. I am just pointing out that it is difficult for people on both sides of the equation.
I disagree that it's a numbers game. Dating more men (or women) doesn't improve the quality of the men (or women) the only way to work the system is to keep your bar high, value quality over quantity, value your own time, and create a live that makes you happy whether you are partnered or not.
I can't think of anything I'd rather do less than go on dates with men I'm not really, really interested in. Or take a chance that the dork with the weird profile might be a diamond in the rough. How sad and pathetic are those dudes who are swiping right on hundreds of women in the hopes one will be caught off guard and swipe back.
As my 24 year old son said, "Men are under the delusion that women are as desperate as they are."
Men are also under the delusion that they are competing with other men for women's attention and affection. They are competing with our peace and how much fun we have with our friends.
And yes, you have made your point clear. Over and over. Of course I know that the apps aren't working for men either. The reasons why are very different for why they don't work for women. That is the point.
You are interpreting my comment in ways that don't represent what I feel or think. I am not sure why we are having such a communication disconnect. Given that we are having such difficulty understanding what the others trying to say, I think it's best for me to simply bow out of this exchange and wish you well. Peace and good luck.
Oct 14Liked by Rachel Kramer Bussel, Lara Starr, Open Secrets
Love this! It’s been my experience too. I see it mostly with straight cis men, but I’m pansexual/bisexual and I’ve found it can be a thing across the gender spectrum though it’s definitely the worst with straight cis/men. I also increasingly wonder how the algorithms work against us and only show us people we’d never date to keep us endlessly swiping.
Thank you! Yeah, I'm sure there is plenty to roll your eyes at all up and down the gender spectrum. And yeah, the apps are NOT in the business of making matches , but still, these dudes are volunteering plenty of material for lots of swipe lefts. 😜
Oct 14Liked by Rachel Kramer Bussel, Lara Starr, Open Secrets
Lara, this was my favorite essay on Open Secrets so far. My favorite line: "It was like a graduate course in Gender Studies in under 10 minutes."
As I read, I recalled a recent conversation with my hairstylist, who is middle-aged like I am, and said she briefly jumped on the dating apps after her breakup, but the photos of men were terrible: duck-lipped, throwing up the peace sign, shirts off, unkempt hair, unshaven. She said almost verbatim what you wrote here, except I love the way you reframed it and decided to expose the underpinning of sexism happening in online dating.
I met my husband in 2006 on a match website, and this was BEFORE apps and smartphones. We had to actually log in a real website and use a laptop or desktop to email each other! Even back then, it was horrific to find a potential mate. Ben and I both had experiences where the other person was needy, narcissistic, dishonest. So I've wondered throughout the years about the evolution of online dating.
This was a great, entertaining read today. Thank you!
Oct 14Liked by Rachel Kramer Bussel, Lara Starr, Open Secrets
I just got onto apps last weekend. 68 years old, 9 years divorced. The struggle is real. I feel like yelling USE YOUR WORDS at some. TOO MUCH ABOUT YOU AND HOW I HAVE TO FIT YOUR EXPECTATIONS at others. And how do they now know yet that the fish and bathroom and bedroom selfies are a turnoff? Here is the funny thing though. At first I did not know that besides setting a dating age range, I had to check a box for "dealbreaker" - and the first men to comment on a photo were ages 28 and 29. I had a sweet, genuine conversations with them. For their generation, it seems there is no need to posture, this is just how they connect with people.
Oct 14Liked by Rachel Kramer Bussel, Lara Starr, Open Secrets
Thanks for putting a new light on a situation I had imagined would be different, and more fun. I'm not looking, but I have occasionally thought to myself that online meet-ups might be a brave new world full of variety, rather than my original opinion that looking for partners online was crazy and desperate. I realize after reading your story that actively trying to find a mate at all (after leaving college and work environments full of singles) is a very difficult proposition.
I will add that a nephew of mine just married a woman who I think is his soulmate. They met online in a "newcomers to town" site and lived together for a few years before tying the knot. So who knows?
Hope springs eternal! There are absolutely successes on the apps. I know several marriages that started on Tinder. Does it happen? Yes! Is it likely, alas, no...
Oct 14Liked by Rachel Kramer Bussel, Lara Starr, Open Secrets
Oh yes! I'd ask to join your group if I were in the dating arena again. I am living with drama and without drama with someone I met online. It is an option and it can be a place to connect with a worthy other. Wishing you the best, and thank you for your shameless snarkiness.
Oct 14Liked by Rachel Kramer Bussel, Lara Starr, Open Secrets
Well, I can see this post being written by me if our circumstances were flipped. Especially the careful process, the editing of the profile, the folder of pics, and then... the befuddlement. Carry on! I believe in you!
Maybe it's also an age thing? My daughter was on the apps and let me have a look (I've been married before dating apps existed) and there were a lot of really lovely profiles from the men in her 26-32 age range. I can imagine what the older profiles are like though. Lol.
THIS is absolutely fabulous.
Thank you so much ❤️
Well said, siSTAR. If I were on facebook, I’d definitely be a fan of this group. I have been off the apps for years because of these exact reasons but your positive attitude and outlook is refreshing. Keep writing. xx
Thank you so much for your kind words ❤️
I think dating apps are difficult for everyone. It is artificial. You know the vast majority of people you match with won't end up being a romantic hit for any number of reasons.
Women complain about men. Men complain about women. Men can send out hundreds of messages without a response, so they get weary of putting out effort and play the law of averages. Women get pummeled with hundreds of crappy messages, and get weary of weeding through them.
I take the apps with a grain a salt. I cut people a lot of slack when they don't know what to say or they stupid things to try to stand out or put up photos that don't work.
Nothing about what you wrote surprises me, Joe.
If men aren't getting responses, it's because their opening volleys are either boring or inappropriate. Put in better effort and you'll get better results.
One man's "cutting people slack" is too many women's "lowering the bar."
Thank you for confirming my hypothesis.
Respectfully I disagree with you. Lots of men do spend time writing personalized letters and get zero response. At that point they tend to play the numbers game.
The point is dating apps are difficult and frustrating for everyone. I meet very few people of either sex who enjoy them
No, that is not the point. And, no, that is not my or any other woman I know's experience that there are "lots" of men writing personalized letters.
That's cool. I don't want to get into an argument. I just know I encounter lots of men who complain that they write personal letters to women on dating apps without getting a response. I tell them to accept that on some apps women are getting hundreds or thousands of responses.
And even if they write a great letter, a woman might not respond if they don't find them attractive or they have some item in their profile that makes them unattractive to a woman. Such is life.
I have spent time on dating apps. I write great personal letters (I have made my living as a professional writer for decades) so I'd better!. Even though I get a good response compared to most men, the vast majority I sent are not replied to. That's just the nature of Internet dating.
I accept it is a frustrating place, and, like it or not, a numbers game.
Again, I am not disputing your personal experience. I am just pointing out that it is difficult for people on both sides of the equation.
Peace!
I disagree that it's a numbers game. Dating more men (or women) doesn't improve the quality of the men (or women) the only way to work the system is to keep your bar high, value quality over quantity, value your own time, and create a live that makes you happy whether you are partnered or not.
I can't think of anything I'd rather do less than go on dates with men I'm not really, really interested in. Or take a chance that the dork with the weird profile might be a diamond in the rough. How sad and pathetic are those dudes who are swiping right on hundreds of women in the hopes one will be caught off guard and swipe back.
As my 24 year old son said, "Men are under the delusion that women are as desperate as they are."
Men are also under the delusion that they are competing with other men for women's attention and affection. They are competing with our peace and how much fun we have with our friends.
And yes, you have made your point clear. Over and over. Of course I know that the apps aren't working for men either. The reasons why are very different for why they don't work for women. That is the point.
You are interpreting my comment in ways that don't represent what I feel or think. I am not sure why we are having such a communication disconnect. Given that we are having such difficulty understanding what the others trying to say, I think it's best for me to simply bow out of this exchange and wish you well. Peace and good luck.
This is SO spot on, Lara!
Thank you ❤️
Love this! It’s been my experience too. I see it mostly with straight cis men, but I’m pansexual/bisexual and I’ve found it can be a thing across the gender spectrum though it’s definitely the worst with straight cis/men. I also increasingly wonder how the algorithms work against us and only show us people we’d never date to keep us endlessly swiping.
Thank you! Yeah, I'm sure there is plenty to roll your eyes at all up and down the gender spectrum. And yeah, the apps are NOT in the business of making matches , but still, these dudes are volunteering plenty of material for lots of swipe lefts. 😜
I have some jokes about the apps in my stand up. I rename the apps to fit their corresponding imagery. I call Tinder Selfie with Urinal Cake. 😂
Hilarious! And unfortunately true
They sure are!! I’m glad you wrote about it!
Lara, this was my favorite essay on Open Secrets so far. My favorite line: "It was like a graduate course in Gender Studies in under 10 minutes."
As I read, I recalled a recent conversation with my hairstylist, who is middle-aged like I am, and said she briefly jumped on the dating apps after her breakup, but the photos of men were terrible: duck-lipped, throwing up the peace sign, shirts off, unkempt hair, unshaven. She said almost verbatim what you wrote here, except I love the way you reframed it and decided to expose the underpinning of sexism happening in online dating.
I met my husband in 2006 on a match website, and this was BEFORE apps and smartphones. We had to actually log in a real website and use a laptop or desktop to email each other! Even back then, it was horrific to find a potential mate. Ben and I both had experiences where the other person was needy, narcissistic, dishonest. So I've wondered throughout the years about the evolution of online dating.
This was a great, entertaining read today. Thank you!
Thank you so much for your kind words. And I'm so glad you found your match! ❤️
I just got onto apps last weekend. 68 years old, 9 years divorced. The struggle is real. I feel like yelling USE YOUR WORDS at some. TOO MUCH ABOUT YOU AND HOW I HAVE TO FIT YOUR EXPECTATIONS at others. And how do they now know yet that the fish and bathroom and bedroom selfies are a turnoff? Here is the funny thing though. At first I did not know that besides setting a dating age range, I had to check a box for "dealbreaker" - and the first men to comment on a photo were ages 28 and 29. I had a sweet, genuine conversations with them. For their generation, it seems there is no need to posture, this is just how they connect with people.
"Use your words!" Ha! So true. Wishing you the best of luck as you dive into the pool! ❤️
Thanks for putting a new light on a situation I had imagined would be different, and more fun. I'm not looking, but I have occasionally thought to myself that online meet-ups might be a brave new world full of variety, rather than my original opinion that looking for partners online was crazy and desperate. I realize after reading your story that actively trying to find a mate at all (after leaving college and work environments full of singles) is a very difficult proposition.
I will add that a nephew of mine just married a woman who I think is his soulmate. They met online in a "newcomers to town" site and lived together for a few years before tying the knot. So who knows?
Hope springs eternal! There are absolutely successes on the apps. I know several marriages that started on Tinder. Does it happen? Yes! Is it likely, alas, no...
Oh yes! I'd ask to join your group if I were in the dating arena again. I am living with drama and without drama with someone I met online. It is an option and it can be a place to connect with a worthy other. Wishing you the best, and thank you for your shameless snarkiness.
Thank YOU for appreciating my shameless snarkiness ❤️
Well, I can see this post being written by me if our circumstances were flipped. Especially the careful process, the editing of the profile, the folder of pics, and then... the befuddlement. Carry on! I believe in you!
Thank you so much ❤️
Maybe it's also an age thing? My daughter was on the apps and let me have a look (I've been married before dating apps existed) and there were a lot of really lovely profiles from the men in her 26-32 age range. I can imagine what the older profiles are like though. Lol.
Thank you, for the kind words and the hope for the future!